Lisbon Revisited

Exciting news from the Tax Payers Alliance yesterday that the EU is set to make all of its members vote once again on Lisbon. 

This would likely mean that in this Autumn the UK Parliament will need to re-ratify the document, which this time will allow for the additional 18 MEP's who are in attendance and on the pay roll to be able to actually vote in the EU's mock Parliament.

This of course opens a question today, in the last day of the campaign before an election of how each party if returned with a majority would react to what will be a very unpopular vote.

I think we could be certain that the Labour position would be to just ram it through Parliament; after all they did so the first time round despite their manifesto pledge.

The Liberal Democrats would certainly follow suit, and would argue it is a technicality and in keeping with the initial vote.  They would not give us a referendum on this or the wider EU vote they have talked of.

But what would David Cameron and the Conservatives do?  Would a second vote on Lisbon qualify in their "referendum lock" policy?  Would the supposedly more EU Sceptic swath of new Conservative MP's kick up a fuss and demand a that the referendum were were once denied now be granted.

I would genuinely like to know, and I hope if any of my readers are within shouting distance of any candidates today they try and get an answer - because a commitment on THIS SIDE of the election is what is needed.

My guess is that the Conservatives would not give the referendum vote and would push Lisbon through with the support of the Lib Dems and Labour.

I don't need to guess which MP's would work for a referendum on Lisbon, or in fact on a referendum on the wider issue of EU Membership because there are at the time of writing 99 candidates nationally who have taken the Albion Alliance pledge and declared:

I pledge to work tirelessly to give the voters of my constituency a democratic and direct voice in the United Kingdom’s continued relationship with the EU.

I pledge that I will sponsor a Private Members Bill, written in clear concise terms, calling for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union – and/or support any motion for such a referendum – and to vote positively for any Bill that may call for such a referendum, irrespective of Party Whip, with a view to the successful outcome of this pledge within 1 year of a new Parliament or sooner.

If the question of EU membership is your election hot spot and if you are one of the awakening masses that knows that our ailing country cannot be repaired whilst we are subject to EU diktat then we have one day to increase this 99 number and we have one day in which to prod and probe the three factions of the Westminster Cartel on what they are and are not prepared to do for us.  If the LIB/LAB/CON candidates want your vote, get them to pledge before the election to the Albion Alliance pledge so that you can be certain they will do what they say and so that others locally can be informed too.

I hope the 5th May is a busy day on the politics blogs, and I hope that people read and realise that getting out of the EU is the very best thing the UK could do.

Monday Musing

Apologies for not posting for a few days, I have been away enjoying Conference League Football, celebrating my sisters impending birthday, recovering from some genetically modified super-virus and last night watching 24 and House all of which kept me away from the computer, and work will no doubt be competing for my attentions this week.

Along my travels there has been some conversations along the way from people regarding the election and regarding in particular the debates.  Despite what the polls are saying, I have yet to encounter anyone who is swinging their vote to the Lib Dems.  Now, that might say more about my circle of friends and family, and the encounters of the weekend, but none the less with a 14% swing in the polls, it is not matching the reality out there in Daniel World.

Which is good because I would genuinely be concerned if all of this fantasy talk of Nick Clegg becoming Prime Minister were to come true.  Mostly because of the Lib Dems fanatical support of all things EU - they would sell us down the river in a heartbeat; but also for Cleggs refusal to back the Lisbon vote despite the Lib Dem Manifesto commitment, and his intent to rid us of Trident (despite declaring publically he would not in his own leadership election, and at the cost of leaving our defence in the hands of the French).  I am actually getting annoyed hearing him refer to his opposition as the "older" parties when his party was born before Labour back in the 1800's.  (And back then the Liberal Party were for personal liberty, free markets, free trade and smaller government none of which can be charactered to Cleggy's party of today.)

What is a little alarming is that there are still people about supporting Gordon Brown, including people in my own family that really should know better.  It seems that whilst most of us are at work, Brown has done some good work in the last year on the sofa's of daytime television and at least one person I love dearly is at the moment still planning to vote for him, though she freely admits it is out of pity.  That really does not make it any better.

And with absolutely nothing to back up this or any of my claims I will move onto David Cameron who it seems has actually alienated people back home.  Whereas I thought he had just edged the debate over Clegg (despite clearly not having picked up some basic lessons from the US debates) it seems back home Cameron came across as remote and as somebody who could never understand the problems facing the coping classes and working poor.  A comment I would find difficult to make an argument against. So I won't.

And is it just me in thinking that if there really is a Clegg-bounce from a debate appearance, does that not make the case stronger for all of the parties to be involved in a TV debate at some point? If seeing and hearing Nick Clegg talk Lib Dem for his part of the 90 minute debate did him good because he was perhaps seen as new or different by some, then maybe UKIP, SNP, the Greens...et al, should be included also in future prime time debates.

So, with three weeks to go dare I make another prediction?  No, I am gonna stick with my original prediction of a wafer thin Tory majority and I think the Great British public in their infinite wisdom are collectively and subconsciously keeping the numbers in hung parliament territory because quite frankly we all have a shopping list of what we want from a perspective government, and few of us thanks to Browns busting of the bank balance are getting to hear much of what we want.  Consensus politics and record debt means there is little anyone feels able to promise.  The closer we get to polling day the more some of our shopping lists will get second and third looks from the main players.

If I were up there, as a crazy right-winger, I would be offering to sell off the BBC, and a referendum on EU membership which would save us money.  But I am not, so you can't have it.

Unfinished Business

Lifted from: Sue

The EU Commission Now Wants To Know What YOU Think About Lisbon

Quote from the Secreteriat's-General webpage:

The Lisbon Treaty introduces a new form of public participation in European Union policy shaping, the European citizens’ initiative, which enables one million citizens who are nationals of a significant number of Member States to call directly on the European Commission to bring forward an initiative of interest to them in an area of EU competence. Before citizens can start exercising this new right, a few ground rules and procedures have to be laid down in an EU regulation.

Given the importance of this new tool for citizens, civil society and stakeholders across the EU, the Commission has opened a broad public consultation in order to seek the views of all interested parties on how the citizens' initiative should work in practice.


The Green Paper, which launches this consultation, gives an overview of the legal, administrative and practical issues that will need to be addressed by the Regulation and asks a number of questions to which interested parties are invited to respond by 31st January 2010.

Here is the email address, ECI-Consultation-citizen@ec.europa.eu  which says nothing at all about not accepting emails of an abusive or sweary nature *hint*.  I shall compose mine in the morning, though I suspect know the language will not be of a suitable nature for this blog.

They wouldn't let us have a referendum, and now they want to know what we think - Soviet EUnion Government is upon us.

President Rompuy

Meet your new President, his name is Herman Van Rompuy and he is currently the Prime Minister of Belgium. He is a Flemish Christian Democrat who is not very well known outside of Belgium.

He has emerged as front-runner and will likely be installed in December, if he can keep a low enough profile until the next EU Summit being held in Brussels next week. He is the favourite of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy for two reasons. Firstly, he is a low profile character who would mould the role, for his tenure at least as more of a Chairperson than of a jet-setting President. Sarkozy and Merkel have apparently agreed that they do not want to be seen as playing second fiddle to an EU presence on international junkets.

The second appealing factor is Mr Van Rompuys likely legislative agenda as he is a staunch fan of the original EU Constitution and a Federalist. His domestic manifesto was penned largely by him and called for a massive expansion of the presence of the EU in councils, town halls, schools and in sporting events all around the EU. The document also says that apart from the EURO, other national symbols need to be replaced by European symbols, such as licence plates, EU Identity Cards, EU Flags at all government buildings across the EU and EU Sporting teams and events.

When the EU Constitution was dropped by the people of Europe and re-introduced without the EU Anthem he told the Belgian Parliament

It is also a certainty that President Van Rompuy will additionally be the instigator of direct taxation to the EU which he has championed for many years. Initially this will be in the form of “Green Taxes” drawn from petrol pumps and from aviation duties, but the aim will be to ring fence VAT across the EU and make it a direct tax set by and paid to the EU.

“We go on with the ratification of the European Constitution in all our parliaments, but we need to admit that for the moment the project is over. However, this doesn’t mean that we cannot continue to work in a creative way in the direction which the Constitution points in.
“I don’t object if we break up the Constitution into smaller parts, as long as we continue to work in the same direction: in the direction of more Europe.”

The adoption of the Lisbon Treaty has paved the way for a Federal Europe, and this will now be rolled out; but it will be done so under the guise of the wishes of the peoples of Europe, when really it is for the betterment of the new elite. The EU has used soft power as a means to consolidate central control of EU Nations for many years, and it will roll out the next phase of the EU project in the same manner. EU Flags will be sent to town halls, schools and Government buildings. The EU Ring of Stars is already proudly displayed in a number of EU countries, but by no means all. The destruction of National Identity and formal efforts towards a European Identity will be openly adopted. The EU which has been working its way into schools without a mandate for years will now have the final say on the way and manner our children are educated. If they cannot win our minds they will take our children’s instead.

What is our Prime Minister, Gordon Brown likely to do? Nothing. Though Whitehall will give the impression of resisting many of the above mentioned initiatives they are at heart fully sold up to the EU project. It is only for appearances sake that Labour will make some overtures, but as soon as these matters have come into place they will be fully supported and pointed to as Labours willingness and ability to work well with European Partners. But the truth is, it is all about giving the appearance that some domestic control and scrutiny remains when in truth it does not. The Conservatives will talk about a Federal Europe being unacceptable, but they too know the only way out now is what they consider the nuclear option, withdrawal.

Meanwhile, in Italy, Franco Frattini, the Italian Foreign Minister has called for a single European Army to be created to underpin a common European Defence policy. The logic according to Mr Frattini is:

"if we do not find a common foreign policy, there is the risk that Europe will become irrelevant. We will be bypassed by the G2 of America and China, which is to say the Pacific axis, and the Atlantic axis will be forgotten. We need political will and commitment; otherwise the people of Europe will be disillusioned and disappointed. People expect a great deal of us. After Lisbon we have no more alibis".

Was he speaking for you when he said that? No, me either. He continued his assessment concluding that it was a “Necessary objective to have a European Army” because

"Take Afghanistan: at present President Obama asks Poland, or Italy, or Great Britain for more troops. If there were a European army, he would have a 'toolbox' to draw from. He might need 30 aeroplanes: he would be able to ask if the European army was in a position to provide them."

…. Erm, so we should have a European Army because it will make it easier for the Americans to deploy European troops and assets??

Keep your eyes peeled. These are the sorts of discussions that long ago would have been conducted in Parliament by representatives drawn from the people of the UK (and soundly rejected). Now the fundamental decisions of our lives are being made in Brussels, Paris and given in interviews to journalists from the Times along the Tiber. The discussion and topics will be contextualised by the agents who support these changes, and opponents will be quickly marginalised.  Gordon Brown may hark on about Britain having influence in Europe, but he also said that the UK was best placed of all G8 Countries to see out a recession and that his Party would not make spending cuts... His belief that the UK has influence in the EU proves how well Sarkozy and Merkel can marganilise him without him even realising.

Democracy truly is the most valued and also the vaguest of political terms in the political world; oh fair England what is the reason for your extended slumber?



18-Nov-09 Update: I did not realise that Mr Rompuy is also a poet, good thing then that Iain Martin did and has published someo of his work.

EU Referendum Pledges

Just for the record, and because I have been critical of David Cameron and the Conservatives lately I felt compelled to add a clarification.  Though I am displeased with the Conservatives and David Cameron what Labour and the Liberal Democrats did was many times worse.

Labour and Liberal Democrat MP's were elected on the promise of a referendum; they accepted your votes and took their seats based on that pledge.  Once in place they conspired to circumvent that promise.

Nobody at all will be able to trust their pledges this time around.  At no point have the leadership of these parties apologised nor have they expressed any regret.  They lied to win peoples votes then acted explicitly against the wishes of those who voted for them.

Labour's Manifesto Pledge:

The EU now has 25 members and will continue to expand. The new

Constitutional Treaty ensures the new Europe can work effectively,

and that Britain keeps control of key national interests like foreign policy,

taxation, social security and defence.The Treaty sets out what the

EU can do and what it cannot. It strengthens the voice of national parliaments

and governments in EU affairs. It is a good treaty for Britain

and for the new Europe.We will put it to the British people in a referendum

and campaign whole-heartedly for a ‘Yes’ vote to keep Britain

a leading nation in Europe.

Liberal Democrat Manifesto Pledge:

The new constitution helps to achieve this by improving EU

coherence, strengthening the powers of the elected European

Parliament compared with the Council of Ministers, allowing

proper oversight of the unelected Commission, and enhancing the

role of national parliaments. It also more clearly defines and limits

the powers of the EU, reflecting diversity and preventing overcentralisation.

We are thereforeclear in our support for the

constitution, which we believe is in Britain’s interest – but ratification

must be subject to a referendum of the British people.

The fact that anybody in the Labour Party or the Liberal Democrats should try to score points from the Conservative reversal is further proof of what a complete bunch of chancers they are.  They clearly feel absolutely no shame in their lies.  They placed their allegiance to the EU ahead of their pledge to their UK voters.  The Conservatives should accept absolutely no criticism from the Labour or Liberal Democrats on their EU policy; though that won't shut me up.  It cannot be said often enough, deceptions of this ilk have damaged trust in politics and politicians, but failure to acknowledge their misdeeds drives people to despair.

For what it is worth, if the Conservatives had of got in prior to Lisbon's ratification I actually do believe that they would have honoured their pledge and held a vote. But that is hearsay now, what matters is putting things right as soon as possible.

Plan B

07-Nov-09 11:22: Picture Updated

David Camerons New EU Policy - My Verdict

So there it is, straight from the horse’s mouth, a Cameron Conservative Government:

- Will accept Lisbon and will not hold a referendum.

- Will attempt to repatriate some Social and Employment laws, (which remain unspecified).

- Will seek an opt-out on the Charter of Fundamental Rights.

- Will offer a referendum guarantee on future power transfers to Brussels.

-  Will pass a British Sovereignty Act stating that the will of Parliament is supreme to that of the EU.

So let's look through this; calmly I hope.

The Conservative Party will accept Lisbon, and only seek repatriation of certain laws laid out as above. So the EU President is in, as is the High Representative, and the EU wide ID Card scheme, control of the police and of our economy. No word though on whether the EURO is now an option. If it is not under the next Conservatives it definitely will be the next time Labour or the Liberals get in. But the bottom line from Cameron is that it was Labour that screwed us and that we should blame Labour, but the Conservatives will not attempt to reverse or take the UK out of the EU or force any retrospective vote on Lisbon.

Initial reaction to this can be read over on the Daily Telegraph, where a group called the "European Movement" could not be happier with David Cameron speech, in fact they are positively thrilled.

The European Movement welcomes the statement by David Cameron today that a future Conservative government would not seek to hold a referendum on the Lisbon treaty.

Peter Luff, Chairman of the European Movement, said:

“The Lisbon treaty is not in force yet, so it is premature for the Conservatives to say that it is not working and needs to be changed. That would be to put ideology above practicality, which is not the right thing to do. Better to give the new treaty a chance.

“There is a large and far-reaching agenda ahead of Europe at the moment, including economic recovery, fighting climate change, helping Afghanistan attain stability, and improving Europe’s relations with China, Russia and America. The Lisbon treaty will help Europe deal with these important issues.

“Any attempt to renegotiate the treaty will be difficult, time-consuming and counter-productive. It makes more sense to deal with the real issues facing Europe right now than to pick an unnecessary and distracting argument with our European partners.”

There is more, but I think you get the point.

Secondly we have the previously mooted repatriation of powers is limited to some Social and Employment laws. David Cameron acknowledged that he would need the support of all 27 member states and probably only when attached to a new accession treaty could this be achieved. So, if the EU does not expand there can be now repatriation. If the EU offers no new treaties, as it does not need to do now that Lisbon grants self amending powers there will be no repatriation of powers. And if the 27 member states do not agree, there can be no repatriation of powers. Let me spare the guff, this cannot happen, there will be no repatriation on this basis. This is nothing more than wishful thinking. How do I know? Because the working time directive was rammed through the EU Parliament this year with the support of Labour MEPs overriding our previous so called “red line”.

There was nothing, absolutely nothing Gordon Brown as PM could do to reverse it. That was the PM’s position in relation to an EU Directive where the UK had achieved a “red line” BEFORE Lisbon.

There is not a conceivable situation whereby 27 council members or a majority in the EU Parliament will grant this power back to the UK, and Cameron should and I assume does know this. But, he is setting himself up for a fight he will not win or another climb down later on.

As someone who wants out of the EU, the repatriation argument was going to be the key today for me, and how far the Conservatives would be prepared to reach and how hard they were prepared to fight was going to be the key to how badly support would leak away. The answer I take from the speech is not very deep, not very hard and allowing themselves 4 to 5 years to do some pretty undefined and uninspiring stuff. It has not brought me closer to voting Tory; I wonder how many wavering Tories will feel that this is simply not good enough?

The third point is an opt-out on the Charter of Fundamental Rights. Now my understanding is that this is a document that was agreed at Ministerial level about 20 years ago and has been bouncing around ever since. It is not in itself a treaty or laws but a proclamation of statements about Human Rights. There is obvious concern about how this will be interpreted by Judges and how it will affect legal practices throughout the EU. However, I think there is a little misleading going on here.

Human Rights Laws are subject to great debate in the UK, but the fact is, most of these do not stem from the EU, but from the 47 Member Council of Europe and the European Convention of Human Rights which the Council passed. This is not a part of the EU; it has nothing to do with Lisbon. The inclusion of the Charter to Lisbon will not really change the debate in the UK on how Human Rights laws are implemented, and really most of the argument boils down to Judges Interpretation both in the UK and in the ECHR Courts in Strasbourg. The Tabloids will still have plenty to write about on this score. I can’t help thinking this point is a smoke screen from the Conservative Leadership, and the misplacing of laws enacted from the Council of Europe rather than the EU (a mistake frequently made) was often publically seized upon by Ken Clarke to ridicule those who complained about the EU but did not really know what it does. So I wonder if Ken prompted this to be included?

The next point was that the UK Parliament would offer a law to guarantee power of referendum on any future transfers of powers. This I think is an interesting pledge, one which some people will buy into, but here is my thinking. EU law is superior to our own laws on areas where the EU decides it is, and up until now, the EU has required treaties to change the balance of those powers.

The EU now only needs, say 10% control, and without much more than a snap of the fingers, it can assume at will up to 100% of control from the nation-state. That’s the deal that is what we are signed up to. So, by going back to the first point, that generally the Conservatives are accepting Lisbon it is hard to see how any transfer in this sense, the 10% to 100% grab will be possible, in fact I would say it is impossible to achieve and would again require unanimity from 26 other nations who have nothing to gain from an UK opt-out here. I return to the point that an amendment would be required at EU Law, which would never be passed in the council or the EU Parliament and potentially a treaty, of which there may not be another one. If this is not the case I hope someone can link to some supporting evidence, because this is certainly the case now.

But what of that small pool of laws that we have retained, well The Conservatives could pass a law in the UK Parliament guaranteeing that a referendum must be held before any more powers be passed. What is left to be passed? The EU will now control us, our education, our police, our local councils, they can impose ID cards, and control environmental policies, employment laws, and they will soon control our economy and increasingly are merging the lines between the national defence and security initiatives of different nations. Seriously, what is there left to want a referendum on? But even with this law, it is subject to British Law and as such can be reversed by a future Labour or Liberal Government. It is only good for as long as the Conservatives hold power in Westminster. I am not filled with confidence this pledge will serve us in the way it was being sold.

It is in fact very much a symbolic bolting of the barn door when the horse is long gone, only the barn is derelict and the bolt is rusty, so what’s the point? Poor horsies.

Maybe I am wrong, I fail to see how any security can be gained or felt from this pledge.

The final point is the Conservative promise of a British Sovereignty Bill asserting that UK Law is supreme to that of the EU. It is an Interesting notion. However, this is another smokescreen.

During what could laughably be referred to as the debating of the Lisbon Treaty in Parliament, Bill Cash introduced Clause 9 as an attempt by the UK to assert Parliaments supremacy over that of EU Law. The Clause read

“Notwithstanding any provision of the European Communities Act 1972, nothing in this Act shall affect or be construed by any court in the UK as affecting the supremacy of Parliament"

The idea being that UK Courts would not feel obliged to ignore UK Laws where these were contradicted by EU law which no matter how you cut it is considered to be superior to UK law. If a vote in favour of the clause had of been accepted the passing of Lisbon could not have happened, as the text has to be adopted by each country in exactly the form it arrives. The vote for clause 9 was defeated, but that is not the point I am trying to make. It is that it had a chance of passing, however, the night of the vote, the Conservative Whip sent Conservatives the all clear to go home, which they did as the Whips word is as good as the Party Leaders word. Just 7 minutes after the texts were sent, the vote went to the lobbies. Only 48 MP’s were present or able to make it to the vote which was then easily defeated.

If David Cameron views the Supremacy of UK law, why did he have the Whip send everyone home? If David Cameron was serious about not wanting Lisbon, Clause 9 was about the best chance of scuppering it in Parliament, so why not try to do so?

These are questions I do not have the answers to, you will have to draw your own conclusions there, but for the record here are the 48 who deserve a mention for defying the whip and voting for what David Cameron now wants you to believe is his aim to.

Ancram, rh Mr. Michael
Bacon, Mr. Richard
Binley, Mr. Brian
Butterfill, Sir John
Campbell, Mr. Gregory
Carswell, Mr. Douglas
Cash, Mr. William

Chope, Mr. Christopher

Conway, Derek

Davies, Mr. Dai

Davies, David T.C. (Monmouth)
Davies, Philip
Dodds, Mr. Nigel
Duncan Smith, rh Mr. Iain

Dunne, Mr. Philip

Evans, Mr. Nigel
Fraser, Christopher
Gale, Mr. Roger
Gray, Mr. James
Hancock, Mr. Mike
Heathcoat-Amory, rh Mr. David
Hogg, rh Mr. Douglas
Holloway, Mr. Adam
Jenkin, Mr. Bernard
Knight, rh Mr. Greg
Leigh, Mr. Edward
Lilley, rh Mr. Peter
Main, Anne
Malins, Mr. Humfrey
McCrea, Dr. William
Pritchard, Mark
Redwood, rh Mr. John
Robinson, rh Mr. Peter
Scott, Mr. Lee
Shepherd, Mr. Richard
Simpson, David
Spink, Bob
Stuart, Mr. Graham
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, Dr. Richard
Turner, Mr. Andrew
Walker, Mr. Charles
Whittingdale, Mr. John
Widdecombe, rh Miss Ann
Wilshire, Mr. David
Wilson, Sammy
Winterton, Ann
Winterton, Sir Nicholas

Even if The Conservative Leadership now believes that there should be a protection written at UK Level, it is entirely pointless trying to argue in an EU court that a UK Law supersedes it. It does not, and only someone who does not understand this or a person who hopes that others do not understand this would try something so utterly pointless.

If you are in the EU, you are in the EU 100%. The Conservative will be laughed at all across Europe for even trying to get control back, it ain’t gonna happen and certainly not in the ways they envision. Frankly it shows how little this has been researched because the lawyers will all say the same.

There is a case for a retrospective referendum, but if recognised by the EU it would also have to dismantle the structures of Lisbon (which have all been erected before it became law, so you can be sure this will not happen) and there is a case for an “In or Out” referendum, which will obviously be a vote on whether to leave the EU or not. Such a referendum is the only way of achieving the desired relationship so many of us in the UK want; that of EFTA Membership and full trading rights and access, whilst none of the statehood that comes about by being in the EU. Best of all, we would write our own laws again and govern ourselves again. This is not on the table from the Conservatives; they are tabling acceptance of the EU and nothing stronger than the hint of inclusion of a referendum in a second Conservative Parliament. Sorry but this is not good enough. We all know, thanks to Stuart Wheelers legal challenge that an actual manifesto pledge is not considered sufficient for the courts to act upon, let alone a line in a press conference a whole Parliament before.

So, after today’s speech I can see absolutely no reason to vote Conservative given my strong feelings on the EU, though I now welcome that the Tories can finally admit that we are enthralled to the EU’s wishes, and I think can no longer claim to be an EUsceptic Party. Though I do for some reason still think of David Cameron as a good man, a measure not easily attained in my estimations, I can see no serious policy attempts to make all of our lives better by wresting control away from the EU juggernaut. In fact, I really felt like David Cameron did not fully appreciate exactly how enthralled this country is to the EU. Until the Conservatives really open their eyes to the extent of damage being done to our country by membership of the EU and until Conservative voters are prepared to hold their votes until stronger EU Policy is drafted it is simply more of the same merry-go-round that has led us squarely to where we are today.

Because of my personal feelings I think there will still be a few exits, and possibly a defection or something of that ilk. However, where as Ithink I have a pretty good measure on the Eurosceptic feelings of the country, I have misestimated the level of actions proportionate to certain events, so I am really guessing as to the voter and potential reactionary response here. I am interested in hearing others opinions both on what I have written, but also on their take from Cameron’s speech and how they are feeling about the Conservatives right now. So, feel free to let rip in the comments.

Recommended Reading - Conservatives, Lisbon And Referendums Special Edition - 04-Nov-09

Why go churning around the Internet when all of the best links are already here?

Here is a special Recommended Reading where the texts are proboably only valid until 4pm today, and is focused on The Conservatives, Lisbon and the referendum that never was.

Daniel Hannan says a referendum now on Lisbon may well no longer be the most logical option, but a broad repatriation of powers is essential.

Roger Helmer says that David Cameron gave a pledge without ifs, buts or conditions and that there should still be one.

Iain Martin says that this is the week British Euroskepticism was defeated.

Doug Carswell says we need a referendum on Europe to give people a say.

David Davis writes for the Daily Mail today and says that Cameron can still have a referendum.

ConservativeHome says 66% of people responded in their poll that Cameron should still hold a referendum, and that David Davis, John Redwood and Michael Howard are the most trusted people to spearhead any negotiations with the EU.

Gerald Warner thinks Cameron is the first British leader to have ratted on his commitments BEFORE taking office, and that Conservatives should consider forefeiting their votes.

Danny Finkelstein says get it straight, Cameron is a real Euroskeptic; just a different kind of Euroskeptic to what we might be used to.

Stuart Sharpe thinks it's a bit rich that Labour and Lib Dems are crowing over the Conservative position, when they were the ones that did the dirty on the electorate in the first place.

James Cleverly says wait and see what David Cameron has to say before going "off on one".

Have a nice day yol,

Hague Says No Referendum From Conservatives

He says no promises have been broken and that David Cameron will set out their new policy tomorrow.

What are your thoughts?

Cameron, Conservatives And The EU

It appears that today a few people in the Conservative Party have woken up to the fact that David Cameron is not going to be offering a referendum on Lisbon if it is already ratified when the Conservatives come to power. However, we have long known this as there was never any promise, cast-iron or otherwise to do so. There seems to have been no real rage or rebellion from any MPs or MEPs, and in a stroke a veil has been lifted and the often remarked “settled view” of the party leadership though still foggy, is a little clearer.

Let’s recall the pledge made a little over two years ago, but David Cameron in the Sun Newspaper.

Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations.


No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum.

There is no, and never has been anything coming close to any pledge for a referendum post ratification. The above pledge is of course is for a pre-ratification situation.

The Conservative line seems to be to hold referendums on any future treaties handed down from the EU and secondly to “repatriate” some social justice powers. So far the only real commitment on Lisbon is to “not let matters rest”.

The first point is completely and utterly useless to us as The Lisbon Treaty is self amending, meaning that the EU never again has to go to the member states and ask for additional powers. It has the legal identity and essentially federal powers to control whatever it likes. The second point seems to me to be nothing more than an attempt to stop the Conservatives EU Sceptics from jumping ship. And it has worked. There are no specific details of what will be sought to be repatriated, or even how this can be achieved. At the moment, the Treaties guarantee the EU the rights to govern on particular aspects, but after Lisbon I do not see how anything can be codified. If repatriation requires approval from the EU Parliament, then any promises are simply empty as the EU Parliament would vote overwhelmingly against such moves.

Now, I may have voted Conservative in the last two general elections, but based on the lack of clarity and conviction from the Conservative Party leadership I shall not be doing so next year, this is not a change of position, it is what I thought the outcome of Lisbon would be and in line with what I have written before. It gives me no pleasure to be in the wilderness from the Conservative Party who on most other issues I agree, at least in principle on and if not for their stance on the EU I would quite probably be a Party Member.

We will be locked into the EU with the full powers of Lisbon probably by the end of the year. In case you missed it, that includes the flags and anthems that were dropped from the original constitution which are now recognised having been adopted via a different route. Ode to Joy will be played at all official functions, (as it was to celebrate Hitler’s birthdays) and the EU Flag will be displayed as widely as possible. These were adopted to convey the emotion of the EU where the flag is on display and when Ode to Joy is heard.

Let’s face some more facts. From next year now that Lisbon will be in effect there will be a renewed effort for the non-EURO countries to adopt the EURO to be in line with the rest of the EU, and there will be efforts to get the UK to join the Schengen zone. There will soon be moves for an EU wide ID Card scheme (yes, that’s why the UK one was eventually dropped). Lisbon provides for the “harmonisation” of Civil Law and Law Enforcement – they already have the EGF ready to roll out, and the EU can now take control of civil policing.

If the Conservative Party will not offer a referendum on Lisbon, any they will not offer a referendum on the wider issue of membership everyone who votes for the Conservatives at the next election is voting to formalise acceptance of our current situation. I do not believe there will be any significant repatriation of powers after a Conservative victory, because there is no mechanism by which this could happen. But even if I am wrong and even if this is what David Cameron seeks to do, what then? The UK will forever be tied to the EU and subservient to it decision making. This is the very best case situation that can occur by voting Conservative.

So I will not do it.

I will not vote for any party that accepts that power be taken away from voters and put irreversibly in the hands of unelected bureaucrats, technocrats and so called experts. What about what happens in 8 or 12 years when the Conservatives can’t poll enough to secure another majority? Any future Labour or Liberal Government could just dissolve Parliament forever as it will be inconsequential. The hollowing out of Parliament will have been completed, and the balkanisation of the whole of the EU will dictate that the regional assemblies that are already in place see to any business deemed not important enough to be dealt with in Brussels.

Pic Credit: Sue

For a very long time now the Conservative Party has allowed through its broad-church approach the notion that you can be a sceptic. But the real truth is, that Conservative Scepticism is just about taking a slower approach and being more visible and vocal about absorption into the EU state. I was once a part of this thinking, and the notion of “in Europe but not ruled by Europe. It was and remains a fallacy. There is no third way, it is a binary set of positions; you either support continued UK membership of the EU or you do not. Everything in-between is false and serves those who support greater integration.

The EU Phobes in the Party are the ones who split the Conservative party, they were in the minority but refused to cede to the majority opinions, they are the betrayers of real conservative opinions and ideals, of rule of law and power enshrined in Parliament by people who were subject to elections and public scrutiny. There is not one policy, and not one idea being put forward by the Conservative Leadership that will fundamentally change the relationship between the UK and the EU. It is so vague in fact I would find it an insulting if it were me who was a member. So, I would say to Conservative voters reading this, who I know overwhelmingly dislike and distrust the EU, are you really happy with this position? What, if anything are you going to do about changing it? And crucially, do you really want to vote for a party that is essentially in favour of continuing as members, as units of the European Superstate? This may be the last General Election in the UK when your vote can make a difference to how and by whom we are governed. Whoever our next PM is really will be the last PM with a significant role in our lives, because more and more the tools of control are going to be transferred from London to Brussels. President Blair is indeed unappealing, but there are many, many others who would be worse and just a heartbeat and closed meeting away from that position.

For thirty years the idea that Conservatives should ignore certain things about the EC, EEC and now the EU whilst concentrating on others has washed; but look where we are today. Where will we be in another eight or ten years? This thinking must stop.

Tell me I am wrong. But show me why. Behind every nudge towards supporting the Conservatives and being quiet on the EU is the implication that down the line something will be done, that the EU is just as disliked, and that at some point in time the Conservatives will reform it, or change our relationship in such a way as to be acceptable to the UK. But it never happened before and there is nothing tangible on the table to suggest this is actually what will be done. Voter disdain grows more and more as decisions are taken further and further away from their control.

What is additionally infuriating is the notion that we would be in a position of weakness if we were to attempt to change things. We are not. We are not (yet) tied to the EURO, the EU sells too much to the UK to every want to risk that stopping. We can withdraw monetarily, economically and politically. And for our slightly removed position we pay a lot of money into the project, and are second highest net contributors, we are not “bad Europeans” we have been suckers. Membership of EFTA guarantees us a trading relationship with the EU, do we need or want anything more than this? Do Conservatives want more than this? If not, say so because it could be within our grasp just so long as our representatives in Westminster know the veracity of our feelings.

So I guess my point is this. The Conservative Party will not withdraw from the EU, ever. I believe the number is at approximately 40% of Party members who want out of the EU and a further 30% who want at least some reduction in EU influence. So approx. 70% of Conservatives would probably say that the current position is not one they favour. To the 40% I put it to you that your party is not a party that will do this, and I think you should now give real consideration to switching your votes. To the 30%, I say that post-Lisbon I would wager your position and feeling will harden and you also should look to switch your votes. This, or you have to start pushing internally and pushing hard to get a reversal on this position. Or is one email from Bill Cash all that can be mustered?

There are plenty of us on the outside who would consider coming back if a solid reversal was attained. I suspect that if an in or out referendum were promised in return for a Conservative vote, the Tories could top 50% at the polls. I really do think this. You may lose some votes from EU-philes, but you will gain many, many more and you would truly be the party that broadly represents the centre-right feelings of this country, and that would be a truly great achievement in itself.

Northern Ireland Assembly Votes In Favour Of Referendum On Lisbon

Excellent spot and full credit to Fausty

The Northern Ireland assembly has debated and voted on a motion urging whoever wins the next UK General Election hold a referendum on the UK's ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, and the motion was approved 47-19.

An extract

"those parties aspiring to form the incoming Government of the United Kingdom to give an unequivocal commitment to hold, within a twelve month period from assuming office in 2010, a binding referendum on the Lisbon Treaty that is unconditional and unrelated to how other member states choose to vote, and the result of which will not be held in abeyance pending a further referendum on the subject."

Excellent news.

I wonder if there are any plans for a similar debate in the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish Parliament?

A Very Modern Coup d'etat

According to The Times, the French and the Germans have applied the pressure on the Czech Government which is now meeting to discuss ways to circumvent President Klaus and adopt the Lisbon Treaty.  It is claimed that Impeachment of President Klaus is one of the options being looked at.

The Czech Constitutional Court is reviewing the Lisbon Treaty again, and President Klaus is also looking for some opt-outs similar to those negotiated by Britain.  It would appear the notion of President Klaus seeking to hold off ratification for long enough for a British referendum is as suspected fantasy.  With the attentions of the entire EU now on the Czech Republic it is certain that the EU will find a way to force this through, or it may even threaten the Czech republic with expulsion from the EU if it does not sign.

If all the existing nations did not sign it would likely mean that a new ratification would be required, but each Government would surely take the existing ratifications and use that as authority to sign quickly.  Alternatively, the existing treaty will be signed and the EU will simp0ly ignore that The Czechs are not a part of it.  Thanks to Brown and Cleggs betrayal of their Party Manifesto Pledges, we are now tied into the tyranical EU.

It should come as no surprise that when the politics of your nation differ from that of the EU elite, they have no qualms in getting involved.  We are no longer a continent of individual nations we are a part of a supra-national bloc.  Your government is in Brussels now.  I hate it, but that is a fact.  Lisbon is just the icing on the cake.  You will now longer have representation in the manner we in the UK are comforted by, only the voices of the lobbyists and the corporations is big enough to be heard in the EU Capital.

I want out, but to get out we need whomever controls the next Westminster Parliament to be in favour of withdrawal.  And as that looks to be the Conservatives, it may just mean that it is time to relocate abroad.  Perhaps a rapid swing to THIS PARTY is our only chance now?


Update: The Boiling Frog points me, and all of us to THIS article from Bruno - Seems President Klaus is not backing down!

Danish Legal Challenge To Lisbon

From TEAM EUROPE Blog:

--

Copenhagen, 28th of September 2009


To the People of Ireland,

Many media claim that in a very short while the Lisbon Treaty will be ratified by all the EU member states – as if this ratification process was simple and unproblematic. But Poland, The Czech Republic and Germany have not yet finished their ratification. This is mainly due to law suits, documenting the profound consequences that accession to the Treaty will have for the member countries.

We, a group of citizens who have brought an action against the Danish Government, charging it with breaking the Danish Constitution, take the liberty to draw the attention of the Irish People to these pending law suits and to the serious political effects of the Lisbon Treaty that they demonstrate. The Treaty confers almost unlimited powers on the EU, thus undermining the Constitutions and the living Democracy in the member countries. It threatens the possibility of the peoples of Europe to have a decisive influence on their own societies and living conditions.

In the pending case we demonstrate that leading Danish politicians in agreement with European Heads of Government have committed an offence against the Danish Constitution. First and foremost they have hidden or explained away the real content of the Lisbon Treaty which is of so radical a character that the Treaty, according to the Danish Constitution, can only be ratified if it is approved in a referendum. This law suit is part of our fight for Democracy.

In Denmark, unfortunately, a law suit does not imply that the ratification is postponed until the Supreme Court has pronounced its judgement. In Germany however the recent judgement of the Constitutional Court means that the Treaty can not be finally ratified unless German laws are passed that will guard German Democracy. This is remarkable and clearly shows that Democracy is undermined if no clear limits are fixed to the extension of the powers of the EU. And already new cases have been brought before the German Constitutional Court, this time questioning whether the new hastily adapted laws give the required guarantees for German Democracy. The final German ratification of the Lisbon Treaty therefore is not yet certain.

A majority of you voted no to the Lisbon Treaty, and consequently the correct procedure would have been to abandon it. But this did not happen, and since then nothing has been altered in the Treaty. It is both undemocratic and inconsistent with the rules of the EU itself that you now have to vote about the same Treaty again – a scandalous way of forcing through a Treaty that the majority of European citizens are against.

It is disquieting that we in Europe have come to a point where Heads of State and Governments decide to carry out so extensive changes ignoring not only the political and legal rules of the EU but even the Constitutions and democratic practices of the individual member states.

We are worried about Democracy at both the National and the European level, and we ask the People of Ireland to bear this in mind when you vote on the 2nd of October.

On behalf of The Plaintiffs in the law suit against the Danish Government,

Helge Rørtoft-Madsen

phone number 0045-55980644 and 0045-26825562

roertoft (at) hotmail.com

Writing Strategy For Dave... Not!

Are you sitting down?

I do hope so.  Best not to be eating or drinking while reading this as you may choke with disbelief, or spew forth a spray of beverage in a fit of laughter.  Best to play it safe, health & safety and all that.

Here we go...

There is something David Cameron could promise that would win back the EU sceptics, make the Conservatives electable in areas where they would not have been for decades, if ever, which would address not one but two of the BIG issues that will face them.

He should promise a referendum to the UK.

Yes, he should offer a referendum on Lisbon and the UK’s position within the EU be it pre or post ratification, but that is not what I am talking about.

He could offer the whole of the UK a referendum on whether we want to remain as the UK.


Stick with me for a minute, I will keep this brief.

A year ago I was very much a man of the Union (our one, not the European one), I still am.  However it is clear there is a good number of people north of the wall that would like to move away from London rule. Likewise, there are many people of a similar mind in Wales. England has not really been consulted on such matters yet, but I know would like a chance to debate and vote on the matter. Northern Ireland, well that is of course an entirely different situation all together, and not one I can do justice to in a short post. Suffice to say, I recognise this would be a divisive and aggravating topic, and I do not pretend to have the answers to all the concerns that might be raised there. I recognise this would not be universally popular, easy or without a lot of negotiation.

Wales, Northern Ireland, England and Scotland have all entered the UK under different circumstances, at different times and in different ways. Each would need a different legal manner for parting, and each would have different needs to be addressed. For example the judiciary of Wales is tied to England in a way that the Scottish courts are not; there are many more examples. I will not go too far into the details as they are too numerous. As much as I respect that Scotland would want to not be ruled from London, I would rather everyone in this Union had a say in a vote rather than to allow Scotland to succeed… we should all be allowed to debate and work through this together.  In a way we would all be voting on a different process.

Potentially a UK council could be retained to address all the matters that just cannot be split out in the short term, and gradually be wound down as each issue became addressed over time. For example, the UK armed forces could not be split up over night, nor would a passport office and system spring up over night. Though an amicable split could be achieved, we are very closely tied to each other, and some things would need the benefit of time to devolve properly, fairly and economically.

This all would be exceptionally controversial, and luckily this blog does not really have the range to need to worry too much about this actually being seriously considered by anyone with any real political or legal power.  I can occasionally afford myself the luxury of putting up some random musings, like this one - but it is worth a thought. Even in the hypothetical.

David Cameron’s Conservatives cannot ignore the West Lothian question if they come to power; I am not convinced they have a working solution that will sit well with all of the UK. I have not yet heard what they plan to do should they get the opportunity to govern.

However, as intimated above, this would also address another BIG subject. That of EU membership. If the Union were dissolved the UK Parliament would no longer be. England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland would all be separate nations, none of which could be bound, should they not wish to be by membership of the EU. I would need a lawyer to be sure on this, which I cannot afford, but self rule would allow the establishment of self governance and from that point each country could pick what laws they like to follow at the point of the split, and which treaties they wish to observe, and possibly sign up to immediately after. If each country wished to, they could potentially re-negotiate their way into a post Lisbon EU.

As such we have a policy that could be pursued over a period of time that would allow a radical shake up of how the UK functions, or ceases to function and allows open debate on the benefits and pitfalls of EU membership.  Best of all, if put to a referendum it really does put power in the hands of the people.

Did I fall on my head? Am I tapping away drunk? Did Daniel1979’s blogger sign in leak to the Internet? Have I gone stark raving bonkers (well, more so)….. No.

Am I serious?

Depends.

I am not accustomed to floating the idea of the break-up of a nation, let alone my own. But, I have been thinking about the dwindling ways I could become free of the EU without moving, and the options are all limited and now all seem like “nuclear options”. Reading many Scottish blogs over the last year I am also of the mind that perhaps England too would be happier if we all went back to self rule.

Don’t panic though, there is no way Dave Cameron would dream of entertaining such thoughts, and I would eat my dogs regurgitated dinner before you will hear a Conservative leader propose the break up (or is it break down?) of the UK. The Conservatives are of course proudly the party of the Union (both, in their case). Labour too knows that they would never again get elected to the London Parliament without Scottish and Welsh support. It is probably a good thing by all that I sit and write from home rather than join and cajole a political party.



#they'recomingtotakemeawayhaha



Update 9th Oct: Outlander had beaten me to it.

Criminal Complaints Made In Ireland Over LT2 Vote

Team Europe is saying that a criminal complaint has been lodged in Ireland against the returning officers, Jose Barroso, The European Commission, Brian Cowen and other subsequent persons involved in the Lisbon Treaty campaign.

I reproduce their content from Alan Keenan below:

--

The facts outlined below will prove that the Lisbon Treaty Referendum of 2/10/09 is Null and Void under Irish and European law. I present two separate points that shall subsequently be proven:

I. The Irish Government, alongside the European Commission ran a fraudulent and illegal campaign for the Lisbon Treaty Referendum.

II. Numerous violations of Irish Referendum law and discrepancies that call into question the security and validity of the votes themselves, default the Irish vote to the result of the last Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.

1) The intervention of the European Commission, entailing massive expenditure of money to influence Irish opinion towards a Yes, the running of a web-site and the issuing of statements that sought to counter No-side arguments, and the advocacy of a Yes vote by Commission President Barroso and other Commissioners and their staffs during visits to Ireland. This is unlawful under European law, as the Commission has no function in relation to the ratification of new Treaties, something that is exclusively a matter for the Member States under their own constitutional procedures;

2) The part funding of the posters and press advertising of most of Ireland’s Yes-side political parties by their sister parties in the European Parliament, even though it is illegal under Irish law to receive donations from sources outside the country in a referendum and even though, under European law, money provided by the European Parliament to cross-national political parties is supposed to be confined to informational-type material and to avoid partisan advocacy;

3) The Irish Government’s unlawful use of public funds in circulating to voters a postcard with details of the so-called “assurances” of the European Council, followed by a brochure some time later containing a tendentious summary of the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty, as well as other material - steps that were in breach of the 1995 Irish Supreme Court judgment in McKenna that it is unconstitutional of the Government to use public funds to seek to obtain a particular result in a referendum;

4) The failure of the country’s statutory Referendum Commission to carry out its function under the Referendum Act that established it of explaining to citizens how the proposed constitutional amendment and its text would affect the Irish Constitution. Instead the Commission’s Chairman, Judge Frank Clarke, turned the Commission into an arm of Government propaganda, while the judge indulged himself in various “solo-runs” on radio and in the newspapers, giving several erroneous explanations of provisions of the Lisbon Treaty, even though this was quite beyond his powers under the Act;

5) Huge expenditure of money by private companies such as Intel and Ryanair to advocate a Yes vote, without any statutory limit, in possible breach of Irish company and tax law, and undoubtedly constituting a major democratic abuse.

6) Breaches by the Irish broadcast media of their obligation under the Broadcasting Acts to be fair to all interests concerned in their coverage of issues of public controversy and debate. Newstalk 106, owned by Mr Denis O’Brien, a committed supporter of the Yes side, was quite shameless in its partisanship on its current affairs programmes.

II.

Under Irish law, ballot boxes are required to be delivered by members of the Gardai to the polling stations at 7:00 am on the date the election takes place.

This legal requirement applies to ALL polling in Ireland, whether elections or referendums.

On this occasion, however, the ballot boxes were delivered to the private residences of the polling/Returning Officers, 48 hours prior to the Referendum.


A number of honest Returning Officers formally objected to this BREACH OF PROCEDURE, and to the concomitant prospective breach of security, let alone of the electoral legislation.

We understand that such objections were officially dismissed out of hand on the spurious and diversionary grounds that the ballot boxes possessed no commercial value, so it would be in nobody’s commercial interest to steal them.

The central issue – that since the Irish ballot boxes were delivered 48 hours early they could be ‘stuffed’ with YES votes by returning officers, as routinely happens in places like the former Soviet Republic of Georgia – was of course not addressed.

The Irish voters were given pencils to make their mark on the ballot, even though all Irish electoral ballots are supposed to be filled with black pen.

Almost nobody was asked for any form of ID or information at the polling stations.


The ballot boxes were left unattended and moved about by many people without question.


At least one box in Cork was removed from the count centre by an unknown individual as shown in the attached picture and video link.

Many foreign nationals and others who were not legally entitled to vote voted in this Referendum. Irish Times article “Gardai to investigate suspected vote fraud”, shows seven voters registered to an empty house.

It follows that, given that the local electoral law was flouted, THE OUTCOME OF THE IRISH REFERENDUM IS FRAUDULENT AND MUST IMMEDIATELY BE DECLARED NULL AND VOID.




--
The post also links to a petition which has been signed by nearly 1,000 people already. If you believe that there are question marks over the conduct of the Irish referendum, and if you agree with some or all of the above then please take one minute to sign THIS PETITION. If you support Lisbon, you should also sign this petition. The Irish vote is the only one which will involve popular consultation, if ratification and implementation across Europe is based on a the tarnished reputation of the Irish vote, Lisbon will never, ever have any legitimacy. All sides need to know if this was a fair and honest vote.

More Questions On Lisbon

Once again with a hat tip to Scunnert...

Was There Fraud In The Referendum Count?

I am not sure if there was fraud, but Scunnert has put up these videos that may cast a doubt over the controls in place.






As the Tap Blog has already covered, but the police were very keen to ensure that monitors not be allowed to count the number of people turning up to vote.  So what checks were in place to ensure this would be a fair vote?

It smells a little fishy.

Saturday Rant

I shall be watching the Conservative conference around work this week with interest. It is naturally going to be watched by with broad interest because they are looking likely to be the party of government from next year.

Today’s result from Ireland on the referendum is looking to be a convincing YES vote which means it is looking very likely now that The EU Constitution will come into force in the coming months and that President Blair and an EU Foreign Commissioner will be appointed to rule us. God help us all.

So, in a “well duh” statement observers of this week’s conservative conference are going to be looking for an indication of what the Conservatives are going to do now that a pre-ratification referendum for the UK after a Cameron election is almost impossible.

That’s why I will be watching, and that is what I will be looking for. I suspect this is true of many others. Looking to a hint in the papers before the conference gets going full swing; it is perhaps a deliberate and placed message from none other than Ken Clarke that I stumble upon in the Telegraph.

Ken Clarke is a big thinker in conservative economics, but he is not the big beast he is presented to be, well at least in my opinion. He to my recollection has not cornered Mandelson since his return to the shadow front bench in January, and has no scalps to his name. The Big Beast has been tamed. On TV it seemed to me he supports much of what he is there to oppose. Mandelson quipped at the Labour conference that he had tried to call Ken Clarke but his phone was off and wondered if David Cameron had ordered it off having got wind of how often Ken and Mandy “agree privately on so much”.

Infuriatingly in his Telegraph interview he speaks well on the Economy. Take this for example:

"I've been through a fair number of spending rounds. The present deficit is a far more serious crisis than anything I ever faced." He points out that Labour's promise to halve the deficit in four years will only bring it down to the level it was at when Denis Healey had to go cap in hand to the International Monetary Fund in 1976.


"We have to go faster than that. We really must start cutting the deficit faster than they are doing because that isn't an adequate aim," he says. He would prefer to cut spending "resolutely" rather than raise taxes. He praises as "wise" the leadership's decision not to rule out tax increases. "Some of my colleagues promised it in 1992 and I spent most of my time raising taxes and cutting spending. It was an embarrassment. Most Conservatives would prefer naturally not to raise tax rates." He repeats the hope that the Tories will be able to reverse the planned increase in National Insurance that will hit all incomes.

But what about it Ken, what about the EU? Where’s the not so hidden message before the conference from a leading Conservative. Here it is.

Mr Clarke urges his critics to stay quiet this weekend. He does not want a return to “the most absurd civil war” of the 1990s when the party “destroyed” itself over Europe. It would be a “disaster”. Under Mr Cameron the party is not interested in “punch-ups”.

But some are. He must know that. “I hope you’re wrong. We have got policy, I accepted it was settled and I wasn’t going to try to change it. We’re not going to move on until and unless the treaty is ratified and enforced.”

ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!

It is the Ken Clarke paradox, a brilliant mind on economics, completely blind to the dangers and excesses of the EU. It is not an accident he is interviewed for the papers the day the Lisbon votes are counted in Ireland.

I did not of course need to go looking for a hint in the papers, like many others when I checked my emails today I got an email from David Cameron – this is his message.

This weekend we will hear the results of the referendum in Ireland on the re-named EU Constitution.


I want to make one thing clear: there will be no change in our policy on Europe and no new announcements at the Conference. There will be no change in Conservative policy as long as the Lisbon Treaty is still not in force. The Treaty has still not been ratified by the Czechs and the Poles. The Czech Prime Minister has said that the constitutional challenge before the Czech Constitutional Court could take 3-6 months to resolve.


I have said repeatedly that I want us to have a referendum. If the Treaty is not ratified in all Member States and not in force when the election is held, and if we are elected, then we will hold a referendum on it, we will name the date of the referendum in the election campaign, we will lead the campaign for a 'No' vote.

If the Treaty is ratified and in force in all Member States, we have repeatedly said we would not let matters rest there. But we have one policy at a time, and we will set out how we would proceed in those circumstances if, and only if, they happen.

Again I am not a party member, and I will not be at the Conference. Does this really cut it for EU skeptics in the Conservative party?

You tell me.

In a post Lisbon EU the UK Government will be even more limited in its function and powers and will have to subvert to the wishes of President Tony Blair. Can you see Cameron flying in for a White House summit without Tony? How about alongside, knowing that Cameron cannot over rule Blair? This is the Tip of the Iceberg as to the limitations of UK Government.

So, it will be an interesting week, I think. In my gut I think the EU Skeptic vote is about to harden without a clearer line of what David Cameron will do. My EU Skeptic Conservative friends have been happy to go along with supporting an “if it is not ratified, we will have a referendum” line. But, it will be ratified, so what is the plan now? When they take this line there is a look in their eye that is the same for most that have uttered it, they want this to be true and enough of a commitment not to send the Conservatives into a dogfight.

Me, I am a swivel-eyed EUphobic-loon who would, if I lead of a national party would campaign for an “in or out” referendum, and if the vote was in I would do all I could to protect and enhance Britains prospects. At least people will have voted on it! And if the vote was out I would have us out in a heartbeat, and would be looking to keep strong trading ties to the EU but also looking to trade deals and to reestablish stronger cultural ties with the Commonwealth Countries and with the US and Asia. I would be thinking of Britain’s place in the World, not just in Europe – Like Prime Minister used to do.

I think the debate needs to move on now from what will be done if it is not ratified. Maybe not this week, but soon. In a General Election campaign with Lisbon ratified and on current pledges, I see no reason to look to the Tories, I think I would have to look to UKIP.

Update: Thanks Boris.

Where's Slugger?

Saw this this morning..

So I did this..

So I thought I would try this...

And then this...

But only got this...

So I missed why Slugger will be down, so if someone read it could you pop me a note in the comments and this being the day of the Lisbon Count I was going to be keeping an eye on this blog... I do not want to be the one advancing conspiracy theories, but I did see THIS earlier today already and it is an easy, perhaps too easy leap to make. 

No tin foil hat, yet.

Update: Have tried the direct question:

Update 2: Asked & answered:

I really should not be up so early and without coffee on Saturdays!